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Hoarding is a Prisoner's Dilemma - Brief Game Theoretic Observations on the Response to Coronavirus
I'm sure many of you are already familiar with the prisoner's dilemma (PD). For those that aren't, here's an outline of the dilemma, as quoted from Wikipedia:
Two members of a criminal gang are arrested and imprisoned. Each prisoner is in solitary confinement with no means of communicating with the other. The prosecutors lack sufficient evidence to convict the pair on the principal charge, but they have enough to convict both on a lesser charge. Simultaneously, the prosecutors offer each prisoner a bargain. Each prisoner is given the opportunity either to betray the other by testifying that the other committed the crime, or to cooperate with the other by remaining silent. The possible outcomes are: If A and B each betray the other, each of them serves two years in prison If A betrays B but B remains silent, A will be set free and B will serve three years in prison (and vice versa) If A and B both remain silent, both of them will serve only one year in prison (on the lesser charge)
This interaction is a fundamental "game" in game theory, in which interactions between two people can be formalized and analyzed through that form. An important tool for analyzing such games are matrices, which display the value of each possible outcome in the game. Here is an example of such a matrix. This is the preference matrix for PD. The numbers are ordinal, and describe the preference of each player. 1 represents the player's most preferred outcome, and 4 the player's least preferred outcome. You can also do this matrix as an "outcome matrix," where instead of showing the preferences of each player, you quantify what they will actually get out of the interaction. Hereafter, a PD game will refer to any game whose preference matrix matches that of the classic prisoner's dilemma. Currently, in response to the coronavirus, we're seeing many people respond by going to their grocery stores and hoarding all the meat, toilet paper, bread, and eggs that they can. The official response from the governments (well, mine anyway, I don't know about yours) is that each person needs to remain calm and to not hoard. To hoard or not to hoard, that is the question. Hoarding here correlates with the "Defect" options in the matrix above, while not hoarding correlates with the "Cooperate" option. If both players choose to defect, then both players receive their third most preferred outcome. However, if each player decides to cooperate, then each receives her second most preferred outcome. So, if we all cooperate, we end up in a better position than if we all defect. This is why we are being told to avoid hoarding - the powers that be are trying to drive us from the bottom right position on the matrix (the position of "mutual defection") to the top left position ("mutual cooperation"). So why aren't people responding? If bilateral cooperation is better for all of us than mutual defection, why don't we do it? Well, there's two other positions, which represent "unilateral defection" - when one player defects on a player who is cooperating. As you'll notice, each player's most preferred outcome is to defect on their cooperating opponent. If you choose to cooperate, and resist the urge to hoard, then I can come along and hoard ALL the things - leaving you, philosophically speaking, screwed. Now I can start selling my TP at unreasonable prices, or just keep it to myself - either way, I have options with all my toilet paper, and you do not. John Nash Jr. (of "A Beautiful Mind" fame) proved that for every game ("game" here in game theoretic terms, so any such formal interaction) has at least one joint strategy that is in equilibrium. A "joint strategy" is any of the squares within a game theoretic matrix - it represents both my choice and your choice. "Equilibrium" means that for any joint strategy, if player A chooses to change strategies, player B has no reason to do the same. In PD, the joint strategy in equilibrium is mutual defection. Let's assume you and I are planning on defecting on each other. If you change your mind and choose to cooperate, I have no reason to also start cooperating - your strategy shift has only made my situation better. Likewise, mutual cooperation is NOT in equilibrium. If you and I are planning on cooperating, and then you change your mind and decide to defect, then it behooves me to defect also. If I do not, I am left with my 4th most preferred outcome. But I also defect, then I get my 3rd best outcome. This is why the hoarding problem is so difficult to overcome. It is in the interest of the group as a whole to cooperate. But each individual player gets her best outcome by defecting. The interests of the group don't align with the interests of the individuals that make it up. MORALITY AND RATIONALITY Decision theory is a branch of philosophy within which game theory lies. It deals with determining what action a person should take based on her desires and her beliefs. An action is rational if by doing that action, she obtains her desires. It is irrational otherwise. In the case of PD, defecting is more often the rational option. This is because it is the only choice in which your most-preferred outcome can be obtained, and by defecting you will never receive your least-preferred outcome. As a corollary, cooperating is less rational. By cooperating, the only way you can get a good outcome is if your opponent also cooperates - and you cannot count on that happening. But while cooperating is not the rational choice, it is the choice that I think most would consider the morally correct option (ethical egoists, like Ayn Rand and her supporters, would disagree here). This perhaps requires an argument to support - but I will leave that as an exercise for the reader. At the very least, whether mutual cooperation ought to be considered the morally correct option or not, I think it is evident that a large bulk of us do, which is demonstrated by the moral outrage towards those who defect rather than cooperate. But this disparity is exactly the problem. The (probably) "morally correct" option is not the "rational" option. And thus people are being left with the choice between doing the thing which most benefits them and their families, or doing the right thing for the rest of us. Yet I don't think it's so easy in every case to say that hoarding is a morally wrong action. Certain feminist philosophers will point out that a person's first duty should be to her family - after all, we are social creatures, the family is an essential social unit in our society, and besides it is our moral duty to provide care to those around us. Despite the harm it causes outside of that family unit, hoarding undoubtedly can secure care to the hoarder's family. If it is morally correct to care for my family before those outside of it, and if hording can secure that, then hoarding is not, by itself, morally objectionable. OBJECTIONS Some philosophers make the very strong claim that all of our moral and political interactions are reducible to individual games. I don't think I'm in that boat currently; I'm not totally convinced that a game theoretic model can exhaust or explain all such interactions. Nevertheless, just as we find logic useful despite the fact that it does not apply to everything we would perhaps like it to, game theoretic models can be a useful tool, if not a universal one. One objection you may have is that "There are more than two players in this hoarding game." True. The web of interaction is much more complicated than one PD matrix would imply. Nevertheless, the matrix describes (in binary terms) the choice each of us has when we go to the grocery store these days - or else it shows the consequences of other players choices. If you arrive at the store, butthole poopied, desperate for toilet paper, and you find that not only is the TP gone, but also the tissues, paper towels, and seashells, you've received your least preferred outcome. Sorry, thanks for playing. Another objection might be to the binary nature of the game. To hoard or not to hoard, that was the question I posed earlier - but what counts as "hoarding?" Buying 10 cases of toilet paper probably counts, but if I only need one, then does buying 2 count as hoarding? To be honest, I just woke up, and I haven't given a lot of thought to the gray areas yet. If the game theoretic reductionists are correct, then the gray areas must also be explainable in game theoretic terms. One possible option the reductionist might have is to show that in some of the gray areas, the game is no longer a prisoner's dilemma - that is, the preference matrix looks different from the one I linked above. But nevertheless, I think that when we use the word "hoarding," we aren't thinking of the fringe cases - we're thinking of the extreme cases, the ones you see on the front page with a photo of some lady with two carts of TP and a title reading only "Fuck this person." And at least in those cases, I can confidently say that they constitute a prisoner's dilemma. Edit: Just wanted to say thank you all for the great discussion! This was my first post here and it was very off-the-cuff, but I had a lot of fun reading and responding to you all. Stay safe out there!
me_irlgbt survey results! really long post! this took me 6 days! exclamation mark!
Long post. REALLY long post. buckle in.
TLDR at the end
First off, thanks to everybody who responded! There were 467 responses in total, which is amazing. I know filling out surveys online can be boring, so I really appreciate you all indulging me for this. A few notes before we get started!
The aim of this research was to get a better picture of the people who involve themselves in this shitposty mess. Nothing was too strenuous, and as this was basically just research for funsies, it’s obviously not fully academic. I did try to follow general good practices, but I’ve also fucked about a little. This isn’t going in a fancy journal.
I have presented the data with the finest graphs Google Sheets has to offer. I am not an expert in using spreadsheets, so some of it may be, in academic terms, somewhat fucky.
I am not an especially adept researcher or statistician. I’m studying this shit in college but that doesn’t mean I’m good at it yet. I know we get some researchers round these parts, and I’d thank you to not cringe too hard at my work.
Now. Let's get started with the results.
Total survey responses: 467
AGE: 460 responses
https://imgur.com/thGOvqi As we can see here, the majority of respondents are between the ages of 13-24, with most being 18-24. No surprise, this pretty much tracks with the general demographics of reddit. We have 3 tiny kiddos who responded, bless them. One person over 60, heyhowareyougorge. It’s interesting to cross-reference the age demographics with the type of posts we see here. I’m in my early 20s, which in gay years is like being in your early 40s, and i’ve been out for years. I see a lot of closet or coming out type posts, which I personally don’t relate to as much any more, but that totally tracks with the amount of youngins we have here. If you’re looking to karma whore, here’s the data you need.
COUNTRY: 457 responses
https://imgur.com/xwAb3g8 So, clearly very US-heavy. Again, not a surprise here for a US-based website. I would like to confess to purposefully splitting up the UK demographics out of sheer curiosity too; I’m Scottish and wanted to know how many fellow Scots I had. Happenin troops. I also wanted to use this to see how many people were from countries with less legal protections for being LGBT. The countries in here I’d particularly like to highlight are: Dominica, where it is illegal to be gay. Penalties include a 10 year prison sentence, or “incarceration in a psychiatric institution.” Absolutely no legal protections for any LGBT people. That’s pretty fucked. India has no legally recognised same sex unions, no same sex marriage, no adoption, but all of these things have been proposed. some anti-discrimination laws. They have a third gender option, called hijra. Trans people do have some legal recognition of gender, which is nice. As far as I’m aware, this situation is pretty unique to India. Qatar, where same-sex sexual activity is punished by fines, imprisonment, or the death penalty. Obviously no legal protections. Russia, where same-sex sexual activity is technically legal, but in Chechnya, it is heavily punished. Gay people are abducted and sent to concentration camps in this region. Russia has done little to prevent this. Singapore, where there is technically punishment of up to 2 years in prison for male same-sex sexual activity, but this is apparently not enforced any more. F/F is legal though. Malaysia, where it remains illegal to be gay. Punishments can be up to 20 years in prison, fines, or whippings, just for engaging in same-sex sexual activity. However, a 2016 court ruling did recognise gender changes as a fundamental constitutional right, according to wikipedia. I’d like us to take a moment to remember, especially if you’re from the US, that the fight for LGBT rights is far from over. It’s not some distant thing. Even people on this good gay subreddit could face severe punishments for their identity. If you are in a country with legal protections, take a moment to be thankful. If you can, please educate yourself on the state of LGBT rights in these countries, and see if you can do anything to help.
ETHNICITY: 463 responses
https://imgur.com/hk6KINj Again, not particularly surprising results here. Reddit is a pretty overwhelmingly white website. I’m a full blown white person so I’m not sure how much I can really say here without verging out of my own lane. I do think we should keep this in mind however, because as a largely white subreddit we may not have so many people calling out racism when they see it. I don’t want POC to feel ignored here just because they make up a smaller percentage of our demographics, so I welcome any POC responses here as to how we’re doing with that. I personally haven’t seen too much racism, as the bigotry we tend to get is centred around our lgbt identities. Whenever I see it it tends to be anti-black, and usually confined to usernames. I do try to ban that whenever I see it, but I’m only one person, so I do rely on you to report things to me!
GENDER: 467 responses
https://imgur.com/GOMLltE https://imgur.com/BY9eRfU Now, this is the one I’ve had to go in and fuck with. This, and all the other charts, are basically just the raw data in visual form. The chart above is each individual response, allowing for those who selected multiple options. So, rather than counting every time someone selected “male”, then “nonbinary”, etc, it’s counting every time a person selected “male + cisgender,” “nonbinary + queer”, if that makes sense. This chart here is the one I’ve fucked with, that just has the amount of times an option was selected. https://imgur.com/ejdAKm9 I basically simplified the data here. Whenever someone said something like unsure, unknown, etc, this was put under “questioning”. The “other” responses are the only ones that received significant editing. These were long-form responses that could not be parsed into simple answers, so here they are in their entirety.
“Something like that lol”
“I don’t have one of these ‘gender identities’ everyone keeps talking about”
“Lol i’m absolutely fucked and i have no idea”
“What is this ‘gender’ you speak of”
“My sex is female”
Now, I could probably have parsed them into other categories, but honestly I thought this was more entertaining. Some important things to remember when reading this data! * I collected it pretty poorly. I wasn’t aware of how google would collate it and i done goofed a bit. Take it with a pinch of salt. * once i “simplified” the data to look at how many times each option was selected, I ended up with almost 800 pieces of data. You’ll recall that only 467 people responded to the survey, so there is significant overlap. This is why I'm showing you two versions. The crossover is not fully clear, and there’s probably ways I could process this data better, but i’m gonna be real with y'all it’s a lot to wade through and I'm honestly just bad at this * This question allowed people to choose as many or as few labels as they wanted. Some people listed their gender as just “transgender” with no other qualifiers, for example. Therefore this data should be treated as only a partial picture of the gender demographics of this subreddit
PRONOUNS: 464 responses
https://imgur.com/lsP8661 Again, I arguably messed up on the collection of results here, BUT, I do think it’s very interesting to see the combinations of pronouns people use. For example, I think it’s cool to see that, among those who use they/them pronouns
25 respondents use they/them as their only pronouns
31 use he/him and they/them
30 use she/her and they/them
Now obviously it’s gonna be difficult to argue for these results to be generalised to the population at large, but this does support what I’ve seen anecdotally for a while; neutral pronouns are often used alongside non-neutral pronouns. We might not have seen this if I had been a better researcher. Here is the version with my own editing, simplification, and parsing of “other” results: https://imgur.com/6sR4w3U Other results are as follows, presented without comment
”A variety of neopronouns”
”Whatever is right in the moment”
”in the closet for everyone except online friends”
”well i would use those pronouns if i was out or if anyone respected them lmao help me”
”the normal ones”
”All? IDK it’s been a very confusing time”
”he/him among general public, they/them among close friends but out in public, would like to use she/her but only when out and fully transitioned”
”I don't know what this means”
Among neopronoun usage, we have specific examples of: * ve/ver * it/its If we put this alongside the “other” responses that indicate neopronoun usage, we can say that 5 of our respondents use, or are comfortable using, neopronouns. I think this is an interesting point to highlight, because common transphobe rhetoric is that people are using a “confusing” variety of pronouns. We have a generally trans-friendly sub (at least I hope so), and out of 464 respondents to this question, only 5 people indicated neopronoun usage. Could it be that this line of thinking, that people are using confusing newfangled pronouns, is just an uninformed scream from the ignorant?
SEXUALITY: 467 responses
https://imgur.com/CXVxEKc Again, raw data. For this one I don’t feel it’s super necessary to go in and parse out who picked multiple things, because the data here seems kinda straightforward, if you’ll pardon the pun. We have a lot of bi and pan people here. Again, it’s difficult to argue for the generalisation of these results, but this does support evidence of bisexual people making up the majority of the LGBT community. If we compare this to the by now well known findings from the Kinsey institute, this does support the belief that most people are likely neither a Kinsey 1 or a Kinsey 6, but somewhere in the middle. It’s not directly comparable because I didn’t use the same metrics, but it’s interesting to think about. I also think it’s interesting to see so many straight respondents. Of course, this could just be trans people who are straight, but I know from the comments I’ve received that some people who responded are totally non-LGBT, just allies. Also, shoutouts to “an absolute mess” and “just desperate for love”. Same, babes.
EDUCATION: 461 responses
There were enough “other” responses that I felt like I needed to go in and take those out, so here’s the raw data before I did that. https://imgur.com/eguYGeK And here is the simplified version https://imgur.com/DZClNVV Here are the “Other” responses
have not completed high forms of education
IDK not american
middle school (x4)
wasn't allowed to go to school by parents, currently studying for high school entrance exam
2nd year degree
in 5th year of phd but no master's earned on the way
professional degree (Juris Doctor)
certificate of achievement, 1yr college
What’s a diploma
My favourite response is “IDK not american”. As we all know, education only exists in America. Anyway, this pretty much tracks along the age demographics. With a population mostly aged between 13-24, it makes sense that the majority are high school or college educated. Of course, it should be kept in mind that not everybody’s education is a linear or traditional experience, and won’t completely track with our age demographics. Shoutouts to the 3-4 people with PhDs tho, mad respect. And that wraps up our demographics section! Onto some of the cool shit.
PERSONAL LIFE SECTION
POLITICAL ALIGNMENT: 477/467
https://imgur.com/TUQNBVJ Here’s the raw data. As you can see, there’s a lot of write-in responses. If you’ve spent any time hanging out on this subreddit, I don’t think it’s any shock to see how overwhelmingly left-leaning we are. I think this sort of goes with the territory of being an LGBT subreddit though, we do tend to develop liberal politics as an attempt to avoid homophobia and transphobia, and then from there it’s easy to fall into leftist politics, especially on places like Reddit. Simplified data: https://imgur.com/isja5Kc Other responses:
Don’t have these words in AUS
I have a hard time understanding all the different words, but I know I’m the opposite of Donald Trump
Hard to say since these terms mean slightly different things in different places/political climates
Whoever isn't a racist bigot
slutty sjw whos ready to bust a fat nut and shoot capitalists
angry *Governmental axis: libertarian. Economic axis: centrist. Social axis: progressive
I don't have a strict political alignment, I just think that every politician can have good ideas whatever their alignment is
I vote based on the current goals of each party
regulated markets, welfare capitalism, taco trucks on every corner. thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Whatever is Civil Rights
no one changes anything but rich mens pocket books
Prefer not to say
We’re clearly a very left-leaning subreddit here. I think it’s interesting that out of a total of 447 responses, only 9 disclosed that they were on the right-hand side of the political spectrum. Is this because only 4% of people round these parts are on the right, or is due to an unwillingness to identify with conservative politics, even on an anonymous survey? Difficult to know for sure. Interesting data tho amirite. Also whoever answered “slutty sjw whos ready to bust a fat nut”, same girl
Raw data: https://imgur.com/oQQWZH9 Again, a fuckfest here, but even before we go in and parse things out we can see that 336/460 indicate atheist or agnostic beliefs. This sort of goes along with my hypothesis/unscientific belief that a majority of LGBT people are non-religious, or will find religion themselves later on. I personally would love to do research on the prevalence of found religion in later life, especially pagan/wiccan type beliefs, in LGBT people. I think a lot of us do really desire that sort of connection to spirituality, but can’t always get it from the religions we were raised in. This is from my perspective as a western white person raised around christian/catholic beliefs; I know there’s differences with, for example, Judaism, where it’s fully baked into the culture to question and argue with your own beliefs, so I know there’s a hell of a lot of cultural bias going into this assumption. Simplified data https://imgur.com/FimSsoh I’ve kept Atheist/agnostic as separate categories, grouped the different Satanism responses, and again created an “other” category. Other responses:
Both Christian and agnostic
I don't believe in a conscious force making decisions, but there is some sort of force underlying the physical world
idk man. dudeism?
Its a mix
None (not explicitly atheist or agnostic, just...ehhhhh)
Given that this is Reddit, I’m not surprised by the high amount of atheist/agnostic responses, given that the site still has a strong legacy left behind by the glory days of /atheist. With this bias in mind, I do still think this presents a compelling basis for further research on the religious affiliations of LGBT people.
RELATIONSHIP STATUS 465/467
https://imgur.com/vcrZae3 This one actually didn’t require much fucking with, so I’ve just presented the gently simplified data. Other responses
In a queer-platonic relationship
I walk a lonley road, the only one that i have ever known.
I’m not really sure rn
In a polyamorous relationship
I have a domme
On a crash course to divorce :(
Wow we’re a single lot aren’t we Honestly I think this correlates with the age demographics. If I were a better data analyst I’d go in and confirm this with the data, but I’m not, so I won’t. Knowing that we have a lot of younger people, who are more likely to have either no relationship or a frequently changing/unstable relationship status, this kinda seems about right. It would be interesting though to compare this with relationship data from other LGBT communities. I think we all know the struggles of finding available partners, especially when you are, as the data suggests, in high school or college. It’d be interesting to see if the high rate of single people here is due to a desire to seek out other LGBT people in order to gain a sense of community as well. Maybe LGBT people in a relationship feel they already have enough of a sense of community and belonging and are therefore less likely to seek out LGBT spaces online. That’ll require some good qualitative data tho which is time consuming. Could be really cool tho.
[Dislike] However, I do not condone jokes of violence against Terfs
I don't even know what that is.
I don't know or care what that means
I hate them so god damned much even the mention of the word terf makes me wanna punch a *wall then vomit.
I have never heard of this
I have no idea who they are
Idk bout them
Never heard of them
Not sure exactly what that means but if I understand it right I dislike them because I support transgender people
strongly dislike is not enough
[just a transphobic pro-terf comment]
strongly dislike isn't strong enough.
TERF is a slur lol
terfs r trash
They can go to hell
They have no place
Too little experience with them to form a meaningful opinion
we should set them on fire
trans rights babey
I think this is a pretty conclusive result. Of the 29 “other” responses, 20 of them indicate Dislike to Strongly Dislike. 5 respondents said Strongly Like, and 1 said Like. These respondents were the only ones who also put in positive “other” responses. 82% of responses were Strongly Dislike. This is honestly going to inform my moderation style. I always remove outwardly transphobic comments, especially if they mirror the “rational people” comment in the responses above. However, seeing such a strong dislike of TERFs will likely mean I’ll remove more comments that are gently TERFy but not as explicit. I do want to reiterate, this is a feminist space. I personally am a strong feminist. I hold some more radical feminist views. I also believe trans women are women, they have a place in the feminist movement, and in women’s spaces. You can absolutely be a trans INCLUSIVE radical feminist. Feminism is almost useless without intersectionality. Trans people are valid and welcomed here. Transphobia will never be tolerated here. Not up for debate.
At first glance, this notion makes sense to me, but I know to little about the issue to form a meaningful opinion
Dissagree w/ but not dislike as people
Don't know whether they're right or wrong since I'm not trans therefore can't confirm shit
I can understand where they're coming from, but i think it's a harmful ideology all the same
I don't agree transition is necessary, since sometimes staying in the closet is the only way to survive. But dysphoria of some kind is necessary.
I don't understand how people can be trans if they've never experienced Dysphoria. Not being a dick, i just can't find an explaination.
I get where they're coming from
I have no opinion. If somebody says they're trans, all i want are their preferred pronouns.
I haven't heard about this before, I'd have to read up on it before giving an opinion!
I just need to shout about the exclusionary nature of the stance
I think dysphoria is necessary, but not medically transitioning
I’d err on the side of caution because it sounds like it could be ehhh. I don’t know enough about *the trans part of the LGBT+ community to properly answer this one
I’m not sure about them yet
It isnt nessacsry but many people do experience it
Neutral as long as they aren’t excessively pushy or rude about it.
New to this concept tbh
Non-binary trans is still trans.
Not enough reading or research done on my part to have an informed opinion
Not familiar with this topic enough to say
punch them too
Therapists should treat it
There is background to their points but their attitude stunts progress for all trans people
they're very flammable too
trans people are trans regardless of what gender affirmations, if any, they choose to undergo. ❤️
trans rights babey
uncle terfs, more or less.
wanting to be a different gender = gender dysphoria, so 90% of the time transmedicalism is just *pointless gatekeeping
This is the one I definitely needed trans people’s opinions on. I am cis-ish (androgynous butchy lesbian who occasionally likes a cheeky they/them pronoun but is for all intents and purposes a woman/dyke) and so feel entirely unqualified to weigh in and decide which side of the issue is “correct”.
56.2% of responses indicate either Dislike or Strongly Dislike transmedicalists
Of the “other” responses, 15/29 indicate a dislike or disagreement with transmedicalist ideology
There is a large amount of “neutral” or “no opinion” responses. I can assume a lot of these are from cis people who, like me, feel unqualified to weigh in.
This is also likely to inform my moderation style somewhat. Again, I always remove blatant transphobia when I see it, and this includes anybody stating that nonbinary people are not valid, not real, etc. From these results, I’m going to assume this is the right move, and continue with this strategy. I personally lean towards not believing in transmedicalism. Some of this may very well stem from my feminist views, but I generally think gender is extremely fluid, and that labels are only worth what the individual believes they represent. If any of you have an understanding of sociology, I tend towards a Weberian/symbolic interactionist approach towards labels in general. Therefore I believe whatever a person identifies as is probably the right identity for them, regardless of what I may think of it. This isn’t necessarily relevant to your understanding of the survey, but it may be relevant to your understanding of my moderation actions. That wraps up this section! This was a long one, thanks for sticking with us <3
THOUGHTS ON THE SUBREDDIT 457/467
https://imgur.com/VUwfXtq Finally, some data i don’t need to fuck around with. Note to self, do more ratings like this. Obviously as a mod I’m happy to see that opinions trend above 5 here. The average score we’re getting here is 7.87 (2dp) and honestly, I’m down. If that was a movie on IMDB, that shit would be a pretty well-received movie. The most frequent response here is 8/10, and most responses are between 7-10, which tells me people generally enjoy hanging out here. I know there’s always a strong chance for bias here, because the people who are likely to respond to a kinda long survey for a subreddit are likely to be people who either really enjoy it, or really don’t. However, even with that bias, I’m gonna just take the W if that’s cool with you.
THOUGHTS ON MODERATION 445/467
https://imgur.com/pmkKyuC Slightly lower trend than overall subreddit opinions, but the average is almost the same at 7.73 (2dp). Since sending out this survey I have made some slight tweaks to my moderation style, as well as making some additions to the automoderator. We’ll chat about that later. I’m glad the overall trend here is positive though; I don’t want this to be a place where you all just end up resenting me.
i dont have a reddit account, and i very rarely check comments. I dont think i'm the best person to answer this.
I dont pay attention enough to say
I just discovered this subreddit like yesterday so I don't really know
I think we need mods who do more than just let people police the sub themselves. We may only need a new mod if the current mods don’t change how they mod. Respond to reports is what I’m saying (I don’t see almost any removed comments ever)
idk i just enjoy the memes
idk im just lurking here
Idk. How many moderators do you have?
if they're good moderators
maybe? i think a little more mod participation would be cool. just seeing admins in comments laughing and joking along with us, and sharing in the memes. i enjoy the hands-off approach but that doesn't mean i don't ever wanna see more mods chilling out and sorta like.,..... making their presence known and joining in on the fun!!! yknow it makes it feel safer
no idea tbh but it seems to be running ok
So the general answer here is that we maybe need more mods. Far more people said no than said yes. Personal interpretation is that people may have felt more comfortable answering “maybe” than answering “yes”. I know that having one active mod for a 90k subreddit is not usual, and by now most subreddits will have gotten a couple more people in. I won’t speak for parlayv but, if you think i’m hands-off, she’s like, not even got hands. Hands not on this plane. We did create the subreddit together (IIRC I came up with the name and she was like “omg that needs to be a subreddit” and then, all of a sudden, it was) but I’m the one who pretty much runs it. I don’t think she’d take issue with me saying that. She’s too busy playing runescape and smoking weed anyway lmao So, given the general results, I will look at bringing more mods on. I’ll probably pull from people I know first, and if that doesn’t work, may open up applications later. If this happens you’ll all know about it. I’ll address some of the comments at the very end. Your concerns are not going unnoticed!
THOUGHTS ON RESEARCHERS 459/467
https://imgur.com/Px4XqGQ Another very similar score, but this time the most frequent response by far is a 10. Average score is 7.84 This one was kinda important for me. I made the decision to allow researchers to post their surveys here. Full disclosure, when researchers come to me in modmail, my key concern is that they’ve followed all ethical procedures. So far, every single one has been done through a university in an official capacity, which means they have to prove they’ve gone through the ethics of their work and it’s been approved before they can even start researching. Whenever I’ve checked them out they seem completely fine, and I’ve so far not received any complaints, which makes me feel good. I personally believe research is incredibly important for us to understand ourselves, as well as other people. I’m obviously biased as hell here because I’m a social sciences student but the whole reason I’m interested in this field is the benefits I believe it can bring to us. So if it’s cool with you all, I’m going to take this result as support for research posts. For now I don’t foresee any issues with frequency but we’ll revisit this if that becomes a problem. I’d like to give you all a sincere thank you for your positive reception to these posts <3
SHOULD WE BAN TERFS OR TRANSMEDICALISTS? 461/467
This question specified “regardless of rulebreaking”, meaning should they be banned on sight if they say they identify as either a TERF or a transmedicalist. I also meant if they posted in TERF or transmedicalist subreddits, but I didn’t specify this, so I won’t use that in my analysis of this data. https://imgur.com/o1fevKC Other responses
Allow them only if they don't say anything transphobic on me_irlgbt
ban 'em when they post inflammatory stuff to bait responses
allow transmeds to flair their posts/create separate sub
only ban Transmedicalists if they’re being dicks about it
don't know enough about transmedicalists to say
Ban transmedicalists, do not ban TERFs
Definitely ban TERFs, I just don't really know much about trans medicalists, so I feel weird making a definitive statement about them.
Definitely ban TERFs. I’m neutral on transmedicalists
Forum should not be allowed to become a hostile environment. They can easily do that.
I don't know the context behind transmedicalists but if they're anything like terfs then yes ban them
I think a distinction must be made between hate and ignorance. Obvious hate should naturally be answered with a ban, but rule-breaking content arising from possible ignorance should be met with a removal, private warning and, most importantly, directing the poster toward resources to educate themselves.
I think there is more ground to talk with transmedicalists but that I would prefer not to deal with them. TERFs should be banned regardless of circumstance.
I’m not sure how i feel about just “banning” people but i disagree with them both
if being mean
If making people uncomfortable
If they are strongly voicing there options, even in other sub, that may be harmful.
Keep them on a shorter leash
Maybe? Or at least make posting that stuff against the rules
Only ban when breaking rules, but dismissing trans women & gnc/nb trans peeps should be against the rules
Only if they are putting forth their beliefs in a way to claim that people are not valid.
Still don't know anything about the transmedicalists but ban the terfs
TERFs have no rights and should go. Transmedicalists are... Kinda difficult? I used to consider myself trans and sorta get where they're coming from. I think it's just a generational issue? I don't think they should be banned outright, like TERFs should, but it should be made very clear that MeIRLGBT isn't the place to discuss that
Yeah, but only if you are sure they are terfs/transmed
yes, because they're harmful to trans communities and this subreddit should be safe.
Again, a generally anti-terf attitude, which is expected from previous questions. Once again, this is mostly to inform my moderation style. I am hesitant to ban people because I don’t want to be seen as a powertripping mod out to get everybody. These results, alongside the other terf/transmed ones, are kind of encouraging me to take a slightly heavier hand than I currently am. Again, some specific responses at the end!
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE MORE OF? 98/467
This was complete free-entry, so I’ve gone in and grouped a bunch of the responses together.
Ace content: 3
Bi content: 4
Positivity/wholesome shit: 4
Trans content: 5
Commie shit: 2
Garlic bread: 2
That Gay Shit: 13
More activity in general: 5
allowing different titles
mod posts for awareness days (ie bisexuality awareness, TDOR, etc)
more response to reports
peace, love, and understanding
a monthly challenge to make themed memes
clarity as to what this neat little subreddit is about
Other responses were generally just “nothin, we good”, so that makes up the rest of the responses. Further answers at the end!
[i removed these comments for being transphobic lol]: 2
That Het Shit: 3
That Gay Shit
non-meme content: 6
Christmas decorations in October
self-deprecating humour: 2
equating tops/bottoms to personality or body types. this isn't yoai it's real life, and i know this is more of an overall issue with the gay community but it's pretty prevalent on this sub
i hope the rest of your day is the best of your day.
Okay to the people who said they want less of themselves and less gay shit you are in the wholeass wrong place are you okay Reposts seem to be a common issue. Could you lot do me a favour and post in the comments what you think are common reposts? I come on and browse the sub but I really rely on things you report to me, so I don’t always see common reposts. As far as specific content you don’t like, I’m afraid that’s gonna be a self-directed thing for yall. Downvote the non-rulebreaking content you don’t like and hopefully people will get the message! Lol @ the one person who said less surveys. Ur in one. Cant stop wont stop x
ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD?
ily, thank you, etc
This shit sweet as hell thank you for taking the time to add it in at the end ily
“all my answers need the addendum of “I am an idiot, and there are many things I don’t know”
Hi. how u doin
I am a gay
Absolutely. We love that for you.
[bee movie script]
Hi. no. dislike.
Comrades! You have nothing to lose but your chains!
There’s like 5 of you that said this and i love it
imagine being sega and not working towards creating and publishing a new jet set radio future game; absolutely criminal
Imagine being sega. Can’t relate
Perhaps a link in the side bar we can click to escape the subreddit, especially on mobile if possible.
Honestly not a bad idea. I’ll look into this.
Please just add the QA to the name. It’s 2 letters
I’m sorry, i can’t change the subreddit name. I’ll add it to the sidebar tho <3
Sexual attraction is bourgeois
Idk what this means but it is now one of the central tenets of my faith
Thanks for all the “other” options
You’re welcome it made like, 100x more work for me, but i kinda like that we have a smidge of qualitative data alongside all the quantitative shit.
Thanks for letting me participate despite my non LGBT status
Thanks for being chill!
You people need to calm down. I can sense that this energy primarily comes from North America, so I will explain. The level of discrimination and the lack of basic human rights are so extreme, people cannot stand it anymore even if they are not fully aware of these subconscious vibes, so they need to pull extremely in the other direction to make up for this. And hence you have this kind of subculture that emerges as result. The problem is that, you people are as bad as the other end of the problem because you're as extreme, and it translates into over the top aggression and people so insanely touchy they see an attack in absolutely everything, even if they are not being attacked. Become aware of these energies, and chill.
Gurl are you like okay? Do you need a lie down? Some fruit snacks? Everything okay at home?
“I think we need mods who do more than just let people police the sub themselves. We may only need a new mod if the current mods don’t change how they mod. Respond to reports is what I’m saying (I don’t see almost any removed comments ever)”
I’m gonna hold my hands up here, I have generally sucked ass at this. I rely almost completely on you lot reporting things to me, but for the longest time I had a big ol mod queue that was just overwhelming to look at. I’ve made changes to this in the past few weeks, including *expanding automod scripts. Automod now deletes certain slurs automatically, as well as any comment that might be mentioning or encouraging suicide. This is a big help because obviously trolls will rely on their old faithful slurs. I was hesitant to do this because I think we all have a right to slur reclamation, but I think the benefits outweigh that right now. *I got a fancy new mod plugin! It’s called toolbox, and basically just tells me whenever a new post is made so I can approve it or not, and it tells me when I have new reports. It’s made the whole experience less stressful *I spent a day addressing all the shit in the queue. The subreddit used to be like, full anarchy, so there were reports going back 2 years. Again, I take responsibility for that. I’ve been a shitty mod and I am addressing that. I hope these changes help address those concerns.
” i think a little more mod participation would be cool. just seeing admins in comments laughing and joking along with us, and sharing in the memes”
I’ve honestly been thinking about this comment for a while. I try to avoid posting here because, again, I’ve seen a lot of criticism of mods who participate too much in their own subs, especially when they distinguish their posts. I don’t wanna look like a dick, yknow? But I like this comment and I’m gonna try and just hang out with you lot more <3
Mod posts for awareness days (ie bisexuality awareness, TDOR, etc)
I kinda think this idea slaps. Does anybody have a calendar of important LGBT dates? I think we could tie this into the other comment about challenges for themed memes, where appropriate.
Clarity as to what this neat little subreddit is about
Me_irlgbt is a queer shitposting subreddit. It’s generally for memes and queer fuckery. Not selfies. That’s about it.
Okay, so, the reason I’m not going to do this is because I feel that if I post a thread for support, I then have a duty of care to anybody who posts in it. I do not have the capability, time, or knowledge to provide that duty of care, so I feel it would be strongly unethical to do this, regardless of how good the intentions are. I think it’s a well-meaning idea, I just wanted to clarify why I’m personally not comfortable with it.
Not everybody in me_irlgbt is gay. Can we have more inclusivity?
When I use “gay” on this subreddit, especially if I’m referring to the general mass of users, I wholeheartedly mean it in a community way. Like, “we, the gays” as contrapoints once said. You are welcome here. This isn’t the only response along these lines, so I will keep it in mind when making changes. And we’re done! Holy shit that was a long post. This has taken me 6 days to edit. Again, reiterating from the top, I’m not an adept researchedata analyst, so I’m sure many people could’ve done a MUCH better job looking at these results, but I think this will do for now. Thank you so much to everybody who responded. It’s been really interesting for me to have a look at this, and pretty cool to get to fuck around with all this data. Thank you ilysm <3
The population on this subreddit trends young, mostly 18-24
Most people live in the US
Most people are white
We have slightly more male-identified people than female, but not significantly so.
Roughly a quarter of respondents are trans-identified.
Most people use she/her or he/him pronouns. Around 18% use they/them, with the rest “other” or neopronouns.
About 60% of the people here identify as bisexual or pansexual, 17% lesbian, 16% gay, 17% asexual. These responses do overlap with many people using multiple labels for themselves.
mostly high school or college educated, which makes sense with the age demographics
overwhelmingly left-leaning politically
generally positive feelings towards the subreddit/mods
mostly atheist/agnostic religious views
74% of respondents are single/not in a relationship.
88% of respondents do not like TERFs
about half of respondents do not like transmedicalists, but 28% are neutral
Where’s the best place to live in light of collapse?
Ok we are 323 comments in on the collapse post and 98% didn’t bother to make even a slightly thoughtful answer. So... i guess i will be the change i want to see in the world First off, If you are the fatalistic nihlistic type you can just go where you think it will be nice to die, maybe that is with friends and family, maybe it is on a beach in mexico, or feeding your body to the last polar bear. For everyone else that still has the instinct and drive for self-preservation….
What are the best places to be leading up to or during collapse?
First let's question the question.
What difference does it make to know "What are the best places to be leading up to or during collapse"? The answer is dependent upon your own personal situation. Your personal situation has limiting factors.
Imagine you are a goat herder in Somalia during a multi year drought and there is no grass for feeding your animals. You have to sell them for dirt cheap because everyone else is also trying to sell off everything they can to get money thus depressing the goat prices further. Now the price of food is skyrocketing because there is no grass and the farmers crops failed, everyone is trying to buy up a hoard of food because everyone knows it is going to be a hard year. You manage to get the equivalent of $120USD in cash after selling practically everything you own but held onto one breeding pair of your healthiest goats you plan to use to regain a livelihood after the drought is over.
Imagine you are a billionaire with a fueled up superyacht, a helicopter, and a private plane. You have practically unlimited money, friends who are rich and connected in other countries, and a whole slew of passports, visas, and secondary citizenships, all else failing you can buy citizenships in most countries for less than $2million investment and pay a teams of specialists to expedite the process.
Your personal Limiting Factors constrain you usually somewhere between those extremes, everyone has different options. If we assume you are asking the question "What are the best places to be leading up to or during collapse" because you want to have the best standard of living available for as long as possible or simply survive the incoming population bottleneck, then the practical question becomes ...
"What are the best places to be, leading up to or during collapse, that i can get to, and establish myself in such a way that I can maintain the best standard of living possible for as long as I can or simply increase my probability of surviving the incoming population bottleneck."
It is important to ask this question to constrain the search space to the possible. It makes fuck-all difference if a somali goat herder knows about the ToP SeCret ElitE mULtibiLLioNaIre New ZEaLand sOUth IsLaNd ReDoUbt BuNkeR CoMmUnITy It is not going to help him and should not be in the search space as a survival strategy. TL:DR Constrain your search space to what is realistically achievable for you.
Start with your baseline probability of survival and increase it.
Don't let a search for "best place" stop you from achieving "good enough place" or "better than where i was previously place".
You are just trying to be an early adopter of increasing your survival probability stats before the non collapse-pilled masses.
Think of surviving bottlenecks like surviving a charging bear attack, you don't need to be able to outrun the bear, you only need to be able to outrun the slowest people in the group up to the point the bear's appetite is satiated.
What are the best places to be, leading up to or during collapse, that i can get to, and establish myself in such a way that I can maintain the best standard of living possible for as long as I can or simply increase my probability of surviving the incoming population bottleneck."
Ok now lets question the new question some more...
In order to answer this we need to untangle some of the subjective and objective elements. The objective elements of human survival are well known.
Optimizing location is a series of subjective trade-offs. There is no perfect place, they all have advantages and disadvantages. So you must decide your personal preference of which goods and bads you most desire and what your scenario expectations are of the future. Your personal preferences and collapse expectations mean the “best area” is specific to you. What you can achieve and what do you desire, find the overlap between the two, then do research to find the place that gives you the most goods with the least bads and increases your probability of survival and standard of living. One of the best strategies is to adapt yourself to your local circumstances to take advantage of the advantages, and plan ahead to mitigate the disadvantages, it is really all most people can do for themselves. Do you like not living in unbearable heat, maybe moving to greenland is NOT a better option than just buying 400watts of solar panels and attaching it to a small efficient AC that keeps one room of your house cool even during summer electricity blackouts. Most problems have multiple solutions, it is worth it to take time and think about things from an economic perspective and different time horizon perspectives. Increasing your optionality is better than narrowing it when it comes to survival, rather than the binary thinking, of “go way out into the northern mountains, farm and live in a bunker” versus “be a full time yuppie and ignore collapse issues”. Getting 2 acres you can put a cheap used rv camper on and go do permaculture on during weekends, near enough your place of employment/where you live, is probably a better plan. Indeed the small dacha’s and country gardens helped many people survive the collapse of the USSR. They would spend weekends and haul potatoes/veggies back to the city with them on the bus. Hedge your bets to cover the most scenarios including the most likely scenarios like losing your job or getting in a car accident. Survival and thriving always has and always will involve dynamic adaptation. Here is a very short list of some of potential trade-offs that you may need to think about and some brief descriptions of how they can affect things. This is NOT meant to be a systematic or exhaustive analysis, this is just me stream-of-conscious flowing on strong coffee to help others start thinking about it for themselves. There are unlimited variables
Hot versus cold
A lot of people in the forum think they it is somehow optimal for them to move to canada or greenland. Someone in eastern kansas moving to canada is not necessary, remember even in RCP8.5 business as usual scenario kansas by the end of the century still won’t be as hot as texas is currently. If there are already people living in hotter dryer areas now, then it doesn’t make a lot of sense to pack up your shit and move to the arctic, just enjoy the longer summers. At least base it on something scientific like the expectation of when that area will cross the 35C wetbulb survivability threshold, so if you live in Bandar Mahshahr then yes move somewhere else now is time.
Do you have children?
Moving somewhere may not be needed if you can live out your expected natural lifespan before things get too bad, especially with the climate. If you have children you may want to move to account for the expectations during their future lifetimes.
Wet versus dry
Wet places usually have more disease and insect loads for people and crops. In dry places it is harder to raise food, net primary productivity is usually lower, except where irrigation is available but there are usually less pests including plant fungal diseases like powdery mildew. There are Europeans living in certain parts of africa whom can only inhabit those areas currently because of antimalarial drugs, pesticides and mosquito nets. The native populations are full of people heterozygous for sickle cell which gives them resistance/immunity to the malaria, just a long view consideration.
Seasonality of rainfall
if you get all your rainfall in the summer you usually live in a region where the muggy wetbulb temps are higher and will be getting higher. You are more likely to get floods during the growing season. If you get rainfall mainly in the winter like mediteranean climates you will usually have dry summers with low humidity so deadly wetbulb temps should not be a problem but maintaining summer vegetables requires irrigation. If using rainfed agriculture you will have different crop choices, which areas grow the types of food you like?
Sunny versus overcast
Sunny areas are great for some dark skinned people and needed for vitamin D production in post collapse scenarios unless you have a good dietary source, black people in dim areas get Vitamin D deficiency diseases like rickets and have higher mortality in a hard enough crash. Gecko skinned gingers thrive better in overcast areas. Lots of people currently exist in environments they are biologically maladapted to, they are only able to live there because of modern fortified foods/supplements and medical care. Bright sunlight destroys folate (needed for reproduction) in pale people and causes skin cancer. Some people get S.A.D. and commit suicide in the gloomy winters of the pacific northwest USA. Just because a place is good in lots of other ways, you should not consider it if it will leave suicidal.
Growing season, long versus short
Long growing season usually means more heat for longer, more times to grow crops but usually less optimal conditions. Short seasons means you have to compress a lot more work in a shorter amount of time. It also means trees grow slower and growing your own fuel supply takes more land footprint while you simultaneously need more heating fuel. Places like iowa have moderate/short growing season but the high lattitude makes for long daylength which increases productivity during the moderate/short growing season. Rainfall is concentrated during the summer and soils highly fertile but it is practically one giant biocide saturated monoculture of death. It doesn’t matter if the you live in a fecund area if your future children die of bluebaby syndrome from the nitrate pollution in the well-water or end up mentally retarded from the chlorpyrifos spray drift bioaccumulating and destroying neural development in utero.
Let's be real here, most of you need to have employment to live, even as things crumble in a slow crash the vast majority will be dependent on employment and purchasing in the marketplace that which they need for subsistence. Cities are almost always better for employment. Keep in mind recently and historically, even prior to the industrial revolution, people were more often moving to cities to escape collapse scenarios in real life. You can look at africa and the middle east today. The reason is the city with its dense network effects can command food from a diversity of sources and the economics incentivize shipping surplus to cities. In times where the economics don't incentivize it governments usually seize it and send it to the cities. There is lots of historical precedent showing this, despite the general ruralist zeitgiest among collapsniks thinking that they need a homestead in the country. Employment or entitlements has been and will be the primary way people meet subsistence needs even in most collapse scenarios. Even in 3rd world areas that are experiencing famines, war, full infrastructure breakdown and conditions that are equivalent to 1st worlder visions of total collapse, people still wake up, go to work pulling weeds for the local land baron, get paid and then go buy a bowl of millet from the store.
High versus low wages.
some areas have low wages but this can come with benefits like low cost of living and people being pre-adapted to living through cooperative social behaviors and "ghetto rigging" improvisation. Last time i was in some shithole parts of arkansas i noticed just about every rural person had a decent sized garden, more than any other state i've been to. They feel compelled to share unlike some high-income places where people are clawing for money to pay rents or status seeking in a dog eat dog competitive environment. I have lived in quite a few homeless encampments and one thing that surprises people is how everyone gives away all surplus among each other, this is a paleolithic variance smoothing strategy, it is supernaturally effective and feels natural once you do it. I see it re-evolve over and over in poor people.
Education levels and sociability of the population
Is the area culturally acceptable to you? Are you acceptable to the people of the area?
There are places that may have all sorts of good qualities but they are filled with ignorant racist meth head bible belt sociopaths who will torment you out of sheer boredom. Some places get full of these people and they reinforce the ignorance and shittiness into a dominant culture that you will be fighting against if you move there. When moving to a place where you are an outsider and the community is hostile to allowing assimilation that can reduce your survival odds. See various historical genocides.
Distance from food sources
Being close to a food source like right on a farm you grow on is great but if you have crop failure you may have no draw to bring in the food. Distance should be measured multiple ways including the strength and reliability of the transportation networks and the energetic distance for transport in energy descent scenarios. Think of the number of connections in the network you can draw from. In a city there are many stores each store sourcing from thousands of farmers, if a few farmers or stores fail there are still plenty of options. Some small rural towns depopulate once the single local walmart closes. Do you trust the local weather and your own potential self sufficiency more than markets/entitlements and transport resilience? Across what scenarios and time spans?
Legal rights and entitlements availability
Solid legal rights and strong property law is great if you are part of the ownership class but when you are dispossessed, lack of legal enforcement can give you a higher standard of living because you can build shelter and do side hustles things without having "the man" come slap you down. In a place like western Europe you may have recourse to welfare entitlements and unemployment insurance payments to buy food in financial crashes and slow crash scenarios, in some countries things like this are not available, this is more important than most people think. Indeed most recent famines occur where food is present but people just have no way to buy it because they are brokeAF, you don't see rich people in those areas starving.
Water flows towards money. Just because there is a stream nearby doesn't mean you will be able to take water from it, you may need water rights while government is still able to enforce such edicts. Alternatively you may have impeccable senior water rights but the government enforcement is defunded and someone with zero water rights is upstream from you sucking the entire creek dry during a crash. Rainfall vs irrigation. rainfall allows a form of independence but having reliable irrigation can smooth out catastrophic variance in rain shortfalls. Don’t forget irrigation management was a major factor in the formation of early oppressive states.
Even prior to the industrial revolution, in cities that had Sea Ports, the population in those cities had higher survival rates than those living in the countryside during famines. Transportation is critical. More transportation modes plane, train, automobile, bikepaths, all different roads, rails, canals, rivers etc. These transports allow goods to flow, which generally helps satisfy regional shortages. Some people judge the main threat to be people taking what they have, usually it is governments doing the taking in the historical record but many are concerned with mythical hordes. If you subscribe to this paranoia about people robbing your homestead you may enjoy being as minimally connected as possible to the transport system. You must determine based on your own preferences and expectations. Good transport is a double edged sword, it means food/resources can also be shipped out of your area towards money/powerful people, remember ownership norms and enforcement rarely disappear during collapse-like periods, indeed the ownership class still sends supplies to the highest bidder which may not be you, see Irish Gorta Mor for example.
In places like london way back when they still burned wood as cooking and heating fuel there were estates just outside the city that were highly organized coppice producers that fueled the city. Wood is heavy and only so much could be carried in a cartload considering they relied on animal traction. There was a distance where bringing the wood to london to sell would not make you any money even despite you getting wood for free because the cost of the journey feeding yourself and animal took the entire value of the wood. These effects are worth thinking about across different transport scenarios. Assets become stranded and likewise things can become uneconomical to ship to you when you need things produced in the city. The wood producing estates outside london were well off financially and smaller estate size could provide higher income than the much more distant estates that were an order of magnitude larger. Transport matters, markets and trade continue to exist in practically every collapse and even in supermax prisons, expect to use markets as a survival strategy, it is more likely than you living some isolated mountain man scenario.
(the older a soil is geologically X how much rainfall it gets) is what generally determines how fertile it is. The best soils are those that are relatively new and have been subjected to just enough rainfall to match the evapotranspiration rate, this minimizes nutrients leaching out, these are the mollisols/chernozems of the prairies. Because the water is just-enough in those zones they are also right at the edge where they can have major droughts with even slightly less rainfall. Wetter areas generally have less inherent soil fertility because of more leaching of nutrients but have more room for rainfall variability without plants meeting water deficiency.
your social ties family friends locations
Having a positive social environment with people you love while just getting by, is better than doing well financially and being socially isolated, for most people. Don’t abandon good family and friends if you can avoid it, it is usually not worth it. “Social capital” has always been a key to human flourishing. Many people in the collapse of the USSR survived on “blat”, not by relocating. A real world social network for altruistic reciprocity is a survival tool.
Proximity to imperialist countries with militaries that may want/need your resources for themselves or their people
Places like ukraine, some of the best farmland in the world, a country may seem optimal in many ways but historically this advantage was noted by outsiders and it has been at the crossroads of empires which means they suffered tremendously in war. The devastation of war and imperialism negated much of the natural benefits of the area when it comes to survival rates. This is something to consider. In parts of africa there is more conflict in abundant zones with more food, outside of famine zones because paramilitaries are supported from the land there and controlling the food supply is used as weapon of political power. Concentration of resources can make areas more dangerous, it makes attacking them economical.
Thread Extension: Additional topics on nandrolone as an androgen in transgender people
Main thread on nandrolone as an androgen in transgender people is here.
Additional topics on nandrolone
Availability of nandrolone Nandrolone esters remain widely available for medical use throughout the world (Drugs.com). However, the availability of AAS, include nandrolone esters, has become increasingly limited over time. The shorter-acting ester nandrolone phenylpropionate is no longer available in the United States or many other countries, and the more favorable longer-acting nandrolone decanoate was discontinued in the United States in 2019. However, nandrolone decanoate remains available from compounding pharmacies in the United States, for instance AnazaoHealth. It is only available from this particular pharmacy at a very high concentration of 200 mg/mL however, which although a potentially workable concentration for use in transmasculine people, is likely completely impractical for use in transfeminine people. Compounding pharmacies might be able to do custom concentrations upon request though. Aside from legal means, some also obtain nandrolone on the black market. Another potential means of delivering nandrolone is via an orally active nandrolone androgen prohormone like 19-nordehydroepiandrosterone (19-nor-DHEA). This compound is converted into nandrolone analogously to the use of DHEA as a prohormone of testosterone (Wiki). It is sold as an over-the-counter supplement from certain online vendors, similarly to DHEA. 19-Nor-DHEA may be a more suitable option for transfeminine people due to the lower doses needed and less suitable for transmasculine people due to the much higher doses required. Dosage of nandrolone The dosage of nandrolone for use in androgen replacement therapy in women and men hasn't been established. Hence, we don't completely know what the appropriate dose is for use in transfeminine and transmasculine hormone therapy. In any case, it is possible for us to estimate. Nandrolone is closely related to testosterone but is roughly 3-fold more potent in rodents (Tóth & Zakár, 1986). We're not sure how much more potent nandrolone is in humans in comparison. Some clinical studies comparing nandrolone and testosterone have been conducted but we nonetheless don't have exact figures at this time (Neff et al., 1981; Friedl et al., 1989; Friedl, 1991; Hobbs et al., 1993; Hobbs, Jones, & Plymate, 1996; Crawford et al., 2003; Gold et al., 2006; Sardar et al., 2010). In any case, 150–200 mg/2 weeks nandrolone decanoate i.m. resulted in changes in body composition that were about twice as large as those of 200–250 mg/2 weeks testosterone esters i.m. in men with wasting conditions (Crawford et al., 2003; Gold et al., 2006; Sardar et al., 2010). The findings of these studies are roughly in line with 3-fold greater potency of nandrolone relative to testosterone. One review recommended a clinical dose range in males of 50–400 mg/2–4 weeks for testosterone enanthate or cypionate but 50–100/3–4 weeks for nandrolone decanoate (Hickson et al., 1989). This is also in line with several-fold higher potency of nandrolone relative to testosterone. Transmasculine hormone therapy A typical dosage of testosterone enanthate for use in androgen replacement therapy in cisgender and transgender men is 50 to 100 mg once per week by intramuscular injection (Wiki; Wiki). Hence, an appropriate dosage of nandrolone decanoate, assuming 3-fold greater potency than testosterone, might be about 16.7 to 33.3 mg once per week by intramuscular injection (ignoring the small differences in molecular weight between testosterone enanthate and nandrolone decanoate). However, it must be emphasized that these doses are merely guesses. It's notable that these doses are quite similar to those used in postmenopausal osteoporosis in women (about 12.5 to 25 mg per week total). Hence, although such doses have certainly been associated with masculinizing effects in women, they might be suboptimal in terms of masculinization for transmasculine people. Consequently, it's possible that a higher dose, like 50 mg once per week, might be better. In addition to weekly use, nandrolone decanoate has a duration suitable for use once every 2 weeks (Wiki-Graphs). Nandrolone hexyloxyphenylpropionate (NHPP; brand name Anadur) was studied as a male hormonal contraceptive by the World Health Organization and others at a dose of 200 mg/3 weeks i.m. in combination with depot medroxyprogesterone acetate (Knuth et al., 1986; Nieschlag, 2010; Nieschlag & Behre, 2012). It was used as a replacement and alternative for testosterone and was given at a dosage of about 66.7 mg once per week. However, this was an intentionally supraphysiological dosage which was selected to achieve a male contraceptive effect, as suggested by suppression of gonadotropins to undetectable levels (Knuth et al., 1985). Hence, although safe and well-tolerated in limited studies, it might be a high dosage for transmasculine hormone therapy. Very high doses of nandrolone can reproduce the full spectrum of androgenic effects of testosterone and hence doses of nandrolone that are too high may serve to nullify its advantages over testosterone (van der Vies, 1985). Transfeminine hormone therapy In postmenopausal women, nandrolone decanoate has been used for general androgen replacement at a dose of 25 to 50 mg once every 6 to 12 weeks (about 2–8 mg/week or 0.29–1.14 mg/day) and for prevention and treatment of osteoporosis at a dose of 50 mg once every 2 to 4 weeks (about 12.5–25 mg/week or 1.8–3.6 mg/day) (Wiki; Wiki-Table). However, these doses of nandrolone decanoate are likely highly excessive for physiological androgen replacement in women and transfeminine people and are probably also spaced much too widely in terms of dosing interval. This is based on the following: (1) normal production of testosterone in premenopausal women is about 150 μg/day; (2) nandrolone is more potent than testosterone; and (3) time–concentration curves for nandrolone decanoate suggest that an appropriate dosing interval is once every 1 to 2 weeks (Wiki-Graphs). Indeed, nandrolone decanoate at 50 mg/2–4 weeks has been found to produce significant masculinizing effects in women with long-term use (Geusens, 1995; Wiki). Since nandrolone has high masculinizing potential in most tissues in the body, like muscle, bone, fat, and vocal tissue, it's very important that transfeminine people don't take doses that are too large. Androgenic and masculinizing effects besides skin and hair Nandrolone has sometimes been described as "non-masculinizing" or "minimally virilizing", but this is misleading and inaccurate. Nandrolone has high potential to produce masculinizing skeletal, fat, and muscular effects, like growth of muscles, widening of shoulders, masculine enlargement, elongation, and shaping of bones, and masculine distribution of fat. It also has high capacity to produce voice deepening (the vocal tissue notably being muscle). The only clear differences in masculinizing effect between nandrolone and testosterone are that nandrolone has a greatly reduced potential for androgenic effect in skin and hair follicles. Succinctly, nandrolone could be thought of as testosterone with minimization of the undesirable skin and hair effects. Voice deepening with nandrolone The vocal tissue, consisting of the vocal cords and the larynx are muscle, and 5α-reductase is expressed minimally or not at all in this tissue (Bhagavan, 2002; Kicman, 2008). Accordingly, voice deepening is normal in individuals with 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency (Imperato-McGinley & Zhu, 2002). As such, nandrolone would be expected to produce voice deepening similarly to testosterone. In accordance, voice deepening has been reported with nandrolone in women at doses used in postmenopausal osteoporosis (Gerritsma et al., 1994; Geusens, 1995; Frisoli et al., 2005). There are case reports of complete masculinization of the voice in women treated with excessive doses of nandrolone (Damsté, 1964; Baker, 1999). Voice changes have also been seen with nandrolone derivatives like normethandrone (Feldman et al., 1960). Bottom growth with nandrolone DHT is required for normal male sexual differentiation of the genitals during prenatal development. This is evidenced by 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency, in which the genitals are ambiguous but overall more female-like at birth and in childhood (Wiki). Although DHT is critical for prenatal genital masculinization, the same may not be true for pubertal development of the penis (Hiort, 2013). Individuals with 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency undergo masculinization of the genitals at puberty such that a small and near-functional penis develops (Photos; Peterson et al., 1977; Marks, 2004; Hiort, 2013). This is so striking that males with 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency in the Dominican Republic are referred to as "guevedoces", which is said to literally mean "penis at 12". As 5α-reductase may not be critical for penile enlargement at puberty, nandrolone may allow for no less bottom growth (clitoral enlargement) in transmasculine people than does testosterone. Indeed, nandrolone has been reported to produce clitoral enlargement as a side effect in women and penile growth in prepubertal boys (Camerino & Sala, 1960; Camerino & Sciaky, 1975). Similar findings have been made for derivatives of nandrolone like normethandrone and norethandrolone (Feldman et al., 1960; Roche, Towns, & Wettenhall, 1963; Kirschvink et al., 1963; Prunty et al., 1958). Sexual effects of nandrolone Libido is normal in men with 5α-reductase type 2 deficiency (Imperato-McGinley & Zhu, 2002; Azzouni et al., 2012) and 5α-reductase inhibitors have only a small negative effect on sexual desire and function in men (Trost, Saitz, & Hellstrom, 2013; Mella et al., 2010; Hirshburg et al., 2016). Accordingly, nandrolone has been shown to maintain sexual function in men similarly to testosterone (Schürmeyer et al., 1984; Knuth et al., 1985; Knuth et al., 1986; Knuth et al., 1989; Behre et al., 1992; WHO, 1993; Behre et al., 2001). This has included libido, erection frequency, erectile function, and sexual activity. Trestolone has also been shown to maintain sexual desire and function in men similarly to testosterone (Suvisaari, 2000; Anderson et al., 1999; Anderson et al., 2003). In addition, use of trestolone for the treatment of breast cancer in women stimulated libido to such an extent that many of the women felt uncomfortable and chose to discontinue it (Suvisaari, 2000). Liver safety of nandrolone Nandrolone is not a 17α-alkylated steroid. Hence, unlike most orally used synthetic AAS like methyltestosterone, stanozolol, and oxandrolone, but similarly to testosterone, nandrolone has no risk of the liver toxicity associated with 17α-alkylated AAS (Handelsman, 2016).
Since the thread was posted (March 2020), a review suggesting nandrolone for transgender hormone therapy has been published (received April 2020 and published May 2020):
Cocchetti, C., Ristori, J., Romani, A., Maggi, M., & Fisher, A. D. (2020). Hormonal Treatment Strategies Tailored to Non-Binary Transgender Individuals. Journal of Clinical Medicine, 9(6), 1609. DOI:10.3390/jcm9061609
The review includes the following excerpts on nandrolone:
Other options may include nandrolone, an anabolic steroid administered via intramuscular injection, which is not as optimal a substrate for 5α-reductase as testosterone, but it has a stronger effect compared to the testosterone on target tissues devoid of 5α-reductase activity (e.g., muscular tissue) . Indeed, nandrolone can be theoretically used in non-binary AFAB individuals requesting masculinization of body shape (i.e., increased muscle mass) with a limited increase in facial and body hair. Regarding the safety profile of this compound, data are limited by the fact that most observations come from the setting of androgenic-anabolic steroid (AAS) abuse [16,17], thus their applicability to appropriate medical therapy is limited . In this setting, concerns about cardiomyopathy and coronary artery disease risk emerged , although associated with the administration of nandrolone at extremely higher dosages . Furthermore, nandrolone use does not seem associated to hepatotoxicity, since, as an injectable oil, it is not subject to first-pass hepatic metabolism. Moreover, some AFAB transgender individuals can benefit from testosterone therapy combined with 5α-reductase inhibitors or from treatment with nandrolone (an androgenic compound less prone to 5α reduction) in case they wish only a partial virilization (i.e., voice deepening and lean mass increase without facial and body hair increase).
The historic task of cultural change is to resolve throughout the dominant culture the distortions of rationalist human/nature dualisms that deny our ecological embodiment and membership of the global ecological community.
For (Moses) Hess, the cardinal sin of the Judaic people was to abandon their heritage, while the cardinal objective of his Communism was to persuade all other people to abandon theirs… Communism was the means for achieving Judaic supremacy over the gentiles. The gentiles were fated to be reduced to a faceless, deracinated mass. Capitalism was also capable of producing this effect, through free trade and the unfettered financialization of society, in which the management of money becomes a vast business in itself, and where the highest virtue, after obeisance to Judaism, is profit.
ve’ahavta (“love your neighbor as yourself”) admonition to Goyim for regarding their Jewish neighbors; as for the Jews themselves, haba le-horgecha, hashkem le-horgo (“he who comes to kill you, rise early and kill him first” as told in 3 Little Pigs))
(wolf) attempts to trick third pig out of his (brick) house by asking to meet him at various places, but he is outwitted each time (3rd pig rises early, does the suggested task, and saves himself from being eaten)
Garrett Hardin writes: "The essential characteristic of a tribe is that it should follow a double standard of morality -- one kind of behavior for in-group relations, another for out-group." -Wild Taboo "It is a tragic irony that discrimination has produced a species (homo sapiens) that now proposes to abandon the principle responsible for its rise to greatness."
Competitive Exclusion Principle In the competition for living space and resources between two species (or two groups that occupy the same ecological niche), one will inevitably and inexorably eliminate the other. “In a finite universe – and the organisms of our world know no other – where the total number of organisms of both kinds cannot exceed a certain number… one species will necessarily replace the other species completely if the two species are “complete competitors, i.e., live the same kind of life.”
"Of Nen and Zen". A short essay concerning the eastern philosphy and mysticism in hunterxhunter.
Soo.. this has taken a lot longer than anticipated, but I think it is ready. . I believe I found something that shines a new light on togashi's nen system(maybe somebody already pointed this out but, maybe not. Either way this will be my own spin on it.) This will take some time to explain and is not the easiest of topics to convey with words, but I'll try my best. So bare with me. It will be worth it I promise. Oh and by the way, I'm not a native speaker, so there are probably many misspellings and grammar fuckups included. I tried my best with what I've been taught, but yes there probably will be A LOT. :D If anyone would like to help improve the grammar of this post, please message me.
- The book of changes -
how two makes four So, I'm really interested in eastern philosophy and mysticism and while researching the four basic elements, I came about a system that goes up and beyond. It's kind of like the binary system actually. It starts with 2 components, light/hard and dark/soft. Those would resemble the dual level represented by 1/0 or yin and yang. They are portrayed as a continuous line **--- for yang(light)**and a discontinuous line - - for yin(dark). It's a bit un intuitive as they are drawn in black, but what can we do. While it doesn't visually fit with light and dark, there is another property included that is portrayed better through the lines and that is --- yang(hard) and - - yin(soft). The space really helps in conveying the soft quality at least. But enough critiquing of ancient peoples work. I really like to believe they wanted to do better, but just couldn't get their hands on that white ink. So let's cut them some slack and move on. There are many things in nature that share a dual relation like that, to name a few: cold/warm, fast/slow, night/day, male/female and also to heaven(天) and earth(地) as in spatial directions. They're relation might seem opposite at firs,t but only on the conceptual level. In nature its an ever flowing and changing process. Yin, dark, soft (female) - - Yang, light, strong (male) --- https://preview.redd.it/qqc7wzuv8av21.png?width=600&format=png&auto=webp&s=d239c1dc11520a33e78c0d7a07cce70d7eb8d388 So, right now we have only 2 distinct states, but if we add another line to the image we are suddenly left with four different states (in mathemathical terms this would be 2^2[ two exponent two] in this case 2\2, the first number being the possible states of the unit and the exponent being the number of units combined.* It's neat to see this, but if you totally loathe math, just ignore it, it's not needed to understand this.) Anyway, I think these are the ones most people are familiar with: air(wind and sometimes wood), water, fire, earth also called: old yin, young yang, young yin, old yang. They make up a continuous cycle while inheriting and recombining the above properties and are fundamentally described like this:
dry, subtle, coldest (male)
most humid, dense, cold (female)
dry, subtle, warmest (male)
humid, densest, warm (female) That's already pretty interesting I'd say, but what I really want to show you goes one step further. If we now add one more line (2^3), what we get are called the "8 trigrams". I first learned about these in German and now upon taking a closer look at the English versions out there, I chose to take the best from both worlds and use what I can. Also, from here on out I can include the corresponding Unicode symbols (yes, they really are included, but unfortunately pretty small. But it's nice they don't count as images that way, curse you image limit!)
The 8 trigrams
☰ Kiën (乾 qián),
the creative, is the force, is strength, is the sky, the father
☷ Kun (坤 kūn) ,
the receptive, is the field, is devotion, is the earth, the mother Children:
☳ Dshen (震 zhèn),
the thrilling/exciting, is movement, is shaking, is the thunder, the oldest sun